Ultima GTR and Can-Am Pack

C14ru5 Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:30 am

How about some private beta testing before I release the updated Ultimas as version 1.0?

Download Ultima Pack 0.9.5 beta test (5KB)
Use the beta test files along with the 0.9 pack from Legacy that you're already familiar with.

Changes to both cars:

Fixed problems with the collision box (If anyone wants to know, {-0.9 ,0.14, -1.625} is not interpereted by Redline as {-0.9, 0.14, -1.625})
New suspension settings, primarily a stiffer supsensionFriction
Weight distribution changed from 45/55 to a more correct 38/62, recalculated inertia
Moved downforce balance more to the rear
New clutchRPM and shiftUpRPMFix settings

Changes specific to Ultima GTR:

Engine swapped for one with a wider power band (but with the same power)
Brakes calibrated to maximum grip without locking up, balance 56/44
Increased differential locking

Changes specific to Ultima Can-Am:

Brakes calibrated to gentle locking at full force, balance 56/44
Tire stickyness back down to 0

I believe I've hit the sweet spot with the suspension settings, but your opinions may differ. The GTR has more weight to the rear than before, so be careful when making the transition from braking to turn-in. The Can-Am is slower than before, because I want it to be competitive in the A-40 class where it actually belongs (not in the RGT-40 that it is placed in at the moment). Tire stickyness may be set back to 0.1 if you think the car can't keep up with the Noble M15 or the Exige in its current state.

Some graphics changes are also to be done until version 1.0 is released.

See Flat Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:09 pm

C14ru5 wrote:How about some private beta testing before I release the updated Ultimas as version 1.0?

Download Ultima Pack 0.9.5 beta test (5KB)

broken link it seems.....

leoantix Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:55 pm

link is fixed (missing "/WIP") ... will test when i get a chance later today, hopefully Embarassed

C14ru5 Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:07 pm

thanks Leo, that's the sort of thing that happens when my posts get too long...

DonaemouS Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:20 am

its strange. After Zolder, I think I'm able to give an opinion on changes. All bottom hits are removed, and this is incredibly good for 2 reasons. The first cause the car is now smooth, the second cause the update came after the TT was closed Wink

But, although te new Ultima is looking similar to the old one, the inertia and weight distributions changes completely changed the way the car need to be played. I mean: I can't use the same braking points of the old one, and the car move through the corners completely different from the 0.9 version.

One more question? I supposing this car is getting done now, why 0.95?

Tomte Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:40 am

One more question? I supposing this car is getting done now, why 0.95?

How about some private beta testing before I release the updated Ultimas as version 1.0?

C14ru5 Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:39 am

DonaemouS wrote:But, although te new Ultima is looking similar to the old one, the inertia and weight distributions changes completely changed the way the car need to be played. I mean: I can't use the same braking points of the old one, and the car move through the corners completely different from the 0.9 version.

Thanks for trying out the car, DonaemouS. Even if you can't quite put your finger on the handling problem, your feedback is still appreciated.

I just tried both cars at Watkins Glen, and that track seems to reveal a big flaw: Mid-turn oversteer. Rear load sensitivity -0.075 fixes the problem, but that dulls the rest of the handling, so I want to try some other methods first. Oddly enough, softening the rear sway bar actually increases the problem. So I'm thinking that maybe my sway bar values are too soft in general. Still, I don't want too little body roll - even the Ultima has a bit of body roll in the tightest turns:

Ultima GTR and Can-Am Pack Oulton10

I'll try tweaking the sway bars a bit and then release a 0.9.6 for further testing. I also think the Can-Am is too difficult to drive at the moment, and I have a couple of ideas on how to fix it.

DonaemouS Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:10 am

C14ru5 wrote:and that track seems to reveal a big flaw: Mid-turn oversteer. Rear load sensitivity -0.075 fixes the problem, but that dulls the rest of the handling, so I want to try some other methods first.

i didnt saw this problem, the car smootly slide through the turn. What I noted, in my quick test, was the oversteering behavior if i try to open gas too quickly.

I had a couple of laps on Zolder, just to figure out the handling. I will test more later today...

PS: yes tomte, sorry, for the first time i jumped the first part of the post to read the final one... Ultima GTR and Can-Am Pack Icon_sadomaso

leoantix Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:23 pm

my two cents ...

the gtr feels quiet nice and right and plenty of fun to drive, i personally like the way she is right now. as far as the can-am, i find that i can't take any turns with her, for she turns like a brick, resulting in over shot turns on every lap. secondly, i think the brakes are way too weak as compared to the gtr, or perhaps the gtr's are simply too strong, either way, i didn't expect such a huge contrast between the two.

Tomte Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:10 am

C14ru5 wrote:

... Mid-turn oversteer. Rear load sensitivity -0.075 fixes the problem... softening the rear sway bar actually increases the problem.

I haven't checked it out, but how about increasing the rear wheel travel a tad? From what you describe it sounds to me like the rear end reaches the suspension stops earlier than the front (especially if you build up body roll), thus the rear inner wheel leaves the ground (or just about). Increasing the load sensitivity would in this case limit this behaviour, as not so much of the load is transferred in cornering or braking onto the loaded wheels.
Softening the rear sway bar would mean the wheel reaches the suspension stops earlier, increasing the problem.

But this is just theoretical rambling, which might as well be absolute bollocks.

C14ru5 Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:30 am

leoantix wrote:i didn't expect such a huge contrast between the two.

The contrast is intentional, since one is race-spec and the other is road-spec. But I don't have a problem with reducing the contrast. The main reason for the difference is the tire stickyness, or the lack of it in the Can-Am's case. Since this car really is a track special, I guess putting some road-legal slicks on the Can-Am wouldn't be too far off from the truth. It makes the car lap two seconds faster than the GTR's Top Gear 1:12 lap time, but getting this car drivable should be my primary goal. Secondary goal is not to make the Can-Am much faster than the Noble M15 / Lotus Exige.

Tomte wrote:Softening the rear sway bar would mean the wheel reaches the suspension stops earlier, increasing the problem.

Nice thinking, I'll examine the problem with that in mind. Suspension travel is 6cm/8cm on both cars, which mainly is used to introduce some turn-in understeer. Like Tiff Needell said in his review: "Turn in and it just doesn't want to bite". However, the understeer might be a tad too much on the Can-Am, so maybe i'll increase the front travel to 7cm.

Expect a 0.9.6 soon, perhaps on Thursday.

C14ru5 Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:17 am

Version 0.9.6 has gone into public beta in the Ambrosia Web Board thread.

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