oil price... something wrong?

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oil price... something wrong?

Post  DonaemouS on Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:04 am

fortunately, in redline we don't need to fight with the growing petrol price, but, something is wrong here in italy with the end user final price.

after the latest crisis, we saw the petrol going up to 140 dlr oil drum. Now, the same price is around 102 dlr, about 27% less.

In italy, the gasoline price touched about 1,532 euros/litre. Now the price is around 1,446. Well, this price is not responding with the same percentage reduction (it should be 1,11836), but there is something much more funny (or dramatic).

In february, the oil drum was around 102 dlr too, but the price here in italy was between 1,352/1,385 Euros/litre.

Dam, about 0,060 to 0,100 Euros/litre less then now...

i just wanted to share with you these thoughts. This strange italian politics is leading me to buy a 75bhp diesel sucking car, then a 90bhp gasoline performance car...

what about your country?

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  slowDan on Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:20 am

Over here its pretty much the same. It almost makes me want to get rid of the 2.5 litre gas guzzler for something cheaper.

Almost! Wink
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  leoantix on Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:40 pm

something is wrong indeed ... yet wrong to whom, us the customers/consumers or the dealers/suppliers?

earlier this year gas around town was about $4.50 a gallon (1 us gal = 3.7854118 liters) of 93 octane. as the year passed, gas started to slowly fall to around $3.95 as it was last night when i filled my car. the price lowering does help a bit, but it makes no real difference when one remembers that it was only $2.50 about 3 years ago. classic psych-ops, raise gas $2, let the public get adjusted to the hit and then drop it back a small amount to keep the masses "happy", still being fairly higher than the original amount ... "sheeple tactics".

the price at pump is result of a large and varying equation. from the recession that has effected most of the global community, greedy tycoons that understand we have peaked in our world oil reserves, the unrest in the middle east, to price wars at the pumps from station owners just trying to survive. all in all, its us (the consumer) that will take the hit regardless.

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  Speeddemon on Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:24 pm

I just noticed, gas prices shot up about a dollar where I am. It is at it's highest ever, as I am not sure unleaded here has ever gone over $4.00 or if it has, by only a cent or two. I'd say it hasn't though. But what gives? Question
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  djpimley on Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:26 pm

It's true that the oil companies are making a lot of money by exploiting consumer dependence, market speculation and political fear but let's not forget that here in the U.K. we pay 117% tax on our petrol. I think the U.K. government are the big winners.

affraid

Interesting thing to note is that from an ecologist's point of view the current price of petrol in the U.K. is optimal. There is no issue of demand exceeding supply and the price is not prohibitory - there's plenty of petrol for everyone and everyone who wants it can afford to buy petrol. It's just that it isn't so cheap that we all buy huge gas guzzlers and make lots of unnecessary journeys, thereby spewing more greenhouse gases and carcinogens into the atmosphere without providing any particular life-enhancing benefit to anyone.
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  Speeddemon on Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:28 pm

djpimley wrote:There is no issue of demand exceeding supply and the price is not prohibitory - there's plenty of petrol for everyone and everyone who wants it can afford to buy petrol.
Unlike a city in TN, (Knoxville, I think) where a gas station ran out of gas. Shocked
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  See Flat on Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:40 pm

In Quebec gas is fluctuating between 1.25 / 1.35 a liter (.9 euro or 5.00$ a US gallon) About 2 years ago it was about 80 cents a gallon. Now morning radio shows tell you the weather, and the price at the pump cause it changes everyday. I doubt it's justified and am pretty sure that it is mostly generated by opportunities for greed. Oil companies are showing RECORD profits. If everyone would stop buying gas today. Prices would tumble. Of course this will never happen. And just as when banks started charging us to keep our money... instead of paying us as they used to do.... Oil companies have discovered that after people scream and bitch a bit... they eventually shut up and pay the higher price. You all realize that when oil runs out... which unfortunately does not seem to be anytime soon.... mankind will find a way to fulfill it's energy needs. It will probably be smarter, cleaner and cheaper but as long as the world powers have interests in the oil stranglehold it wont happen.

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  Speeddemon on Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:58 pm

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  theSnail .@y on Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:52 pm

Did you notice the dropped lately ?
When the oil price went so high (paid in $), the went high too, so prices were not jumping as badly as in the US.
Now the oil price is going down (in $) but the is falling too, so prices are not plumetting as they would have if the had been stable.
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  Speeddemon on Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:09 pm

theSnail .@y wrote:Did you notice the dropped lately ?
No, I did not.
*mutters something about stupid hurricanes.*
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  alphonse on Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:32 pm

DonaemouS wrote:
In february, the oil drum was around 102 dlr too, but the price here in italy was between 1,352/1,385 Euros/litre.

Dam, about 0,060 to 0,100 Euros/litre less then now...

i just wanted to share with you these thoughts. This strange italian politics is leading me to buy a 75bhp diesel sucking car, then a 90bhp gasoline performance car...

In Switzerland its about 1.90 SFr. per Litre , which means about 1.30 Euros a litre or about 7 SFr. a gallon, which is about 6 US-Dollars (95 Octans, Diesel costing about 2.20).

But in my humble opinion, there is a real big mess and a problem coming towards us because of the global warming. Instead of just promising to do something against this, i would not care if the prize would get 4 times the price it is now.

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  slow on Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:51 pm

please dont get me started. the "big oil" companies are running this world. do you really think that your tires wear out because they have to? do you really think that alternative fuel sources are unattainable? the technology exists to replace all of these things. know who owns them? i'll give you one guess......

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  See Flat on Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:05 pm

alphonse wrote:But in my humble opinion, there is a real big mess and a problem coming towards us because of the global warming. Instead of just promising to do something against this, i would not care if the prize would get 4 times the price it is now.
alphonse
Well, I am all for the environment and correcting this absolutely indecent use and waste of everything. My problem with just charging exorbitant prices for gas is the social impact on our lives. Everything we use, be it materials or food, is at one point transported in a truck.. that uses fuel. As prices go up... everything goes up. I just think it's time we demand an alternative but as slow mentioned, the lobbying of oil companies and the shier power they have is used to kill any efforts to move away from oil.

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  DonaemouS on Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:41 am

slow wrote:please dont get me started. the "big oil" companies are running this world.
indeed, unfortunately this is going to be true... But I just remain perplexed looking how an "evolved" global community as we should be, follow oil companies as sheeps.

For years, we are waiting for hybrid, or hydrogen, or colza oil (? I don't know english word). Just think. In Italy we can buy ethanol E85's cars (Volvo, VW and another brand I don't remember), but we have no gas station in which buy the ethanol E85... Laughing

One question? Do you now in Egipt, the unleaded price is about 0,500/0,800 Euros/Litre?


EDIT from my first post. I called gasoline, but I would mean unleaded. Sorry Wink

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  leoantix on Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:41 am

DonaemouS wrote:But I just remain perplexed looking how an "evolved" global community as we should be, follow oil companies as sheep
man as an individual is rare and genius ... man as a group is easy and pliable Arrow

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  djpimley on Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:25 am

leoantix wrote:man as an individual is rare and genius ... man as a group is easy and pliable Arrow
Albert Einstein wrote:
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  Speeddemon on Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:12 am

djpimley wrote:
Albert Einstein wrote:
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
How true.

Oh, and for the record, I'm for hydrogen fuel cells for the future energy of cars, and for now we should use renewable gasoline. (It's real, look it up, I saw it in popular science, it would only be $4.00 a gallon!)
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  alphonse on Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:36 am

See Flat wrote:
Well, I am all for the environment and correcting this absolutely indecent use and waste of everything. My problem with just charging exorbitant prices for gas is the social impact on our lives. Everything we use, be it materials or food, is at one point transported in a truck.. that uses fuel.
The earth and mankind will have to adopt. Everything is fluently changing, be it good or bad.
I am currently standing before a decision of a divorce - you can trust me, this is really not fun and hard.
But no one will care about this in a hundred years. But our children will have to fight with several problems we see coming, have plans to avoid them and do "talk" about it.

It's not that i am a green pedant, but i try to use local products (and not wine from argentina), i go to work by bike and try to heat less during the cold times. But i as an individual am not consequent enough, having a car that uses too much petrol, made for 7 people.
When it comes to money, all problems like war, people starving or the global warming are only secondary. A strange world where fun for the moment is a target to achieve.

This is what i find in redline...

thank you all, once more...

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  See Flat on Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:10 pm

leoantix wrote:
DonaemouS wrote:But I just remain perplexed looking how an "evolved" global community as we should be, follow oil companies as sheep
man as an individual is rare and genius ... man as a group is easy and pliable Arrow
As proven in the howcansheslap video Smile
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  leoantix on Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:24 pm

Speeddemon wrote:I'm for hydrogen fuel cells for the future energy of cars, and for now we should use renewable gasoline.
the problem with hydrogen is the fact that it still costs more money and energy to manufacture to the public than gasoline or electricity. as far as pollution, yes it would help limit the automobile exhaust, yet think about the extra pollution that would be caused just by the expensive and dangerous process of making hydrogen. also, one fact no car or development company talks about, these hydrogen cell cars have no crash data and at the moment, there is no solution in how to contain a 1000 psi container from exploding in a huge crash. imho, electric cars will be the future as it will be the universal and cheapest form of power to all. the little oil that is left later on will surely be saved for manufacturing processes only, such as plastics. on that note, can you imagine a world without plastic? ... again?


but as many have stated ... oil companies and big business will decide for us. here is a movie made by sony pictures, showing the birth and death of such a concept right here in the states in california, too bad the general public never got wind of this ... and yes i blame mainstream media for that



note: pardon the subtitles ... couldn't find a clip without them

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  djpimley on Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:36 pm

leoantix wrote:the problem with hydrogen is the fact that it still costs more money and energy to manufacture to the public than gasoline or electricity.
IMHO electric vehicles have their own Achilles' heel: the battery. Compared to gas and liquid hydrocarbon (petroleum-like) energy sources, weight for weight the energy density stored in even the most advanced batteries is laughable. Also consider the fact that batteries are an ecological time bomb unless manufacture and disposal is carefully controlled - and if disposal is carefully controlled it requires a lot of energy for safe dismantle and recycle.

I think personal transport will be using internal combustion for a long time to come due to the very high energy density and relative safety of liquid hydrocarbons. However I don't think we will necessarily be burning petrol/gasoline; people are beginning to understand that you can burn all kinds of stuff in an internal combustion engine. The technology to produce alternate petroleum-like fuels is emerging: ethanol is a red herring, biodiesel and oil shale are where it's at.

leoantix wrote:on that note, can you imagine a world without plastic? ... again?
I recall reading that some types of plastic can be produced without oil...Bakelite iPods? Very Happy
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Oil Companies and their Friends

Post  Toad on Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:52 pm

Tomorrow is the 15th of September, there's a good chance Mr Fan is going to meet Mr Shit at about 9am New York time. Or if not tomorrow, very soon.

On the plus side, I have it on good authority that there will be about a thousand Jets for sale cheap, real soon, from a Corporation that's in over it's head with investment banks, and leasing planes to guys too important to fly First Class on commercial flights. That damn gas is just too dear.

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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  Tomte on Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:38 pm

Well, given that the oil price was in the region of 20 to 30$ per barrel a couple of years ago, we could call ourselves happy that the price for gasoline/petrol/diesel/whatever did not raise by the same rate over the last years.
As DJ wrote, the oil price is just one part of what you will have to pay at the pump. The taxes make a good deal on top of that.

Personally, I'm driving a car with a diesel engine, mainly because it uses less fuel than the petrol with the same power and because it has more torque where I need it. Still, it's quite a noisy engine, it being from Volkswagen, and what's coming out of the exhaust is not really all sunshine.

Ethanol will save our future, because farm land before used for food is now used for fuel. This means even more monoculture, which will exhaust the fertile land even quicker.
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  djpimley on Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:49 pm

A case in point:

Volt
Lithium-ion battery, 1.4 litre backup petrol engine, 100 mph top speed.

Axon
Conventional petrol engine, 0.5 litre, carbon-fibre body, 85 mph top speed.
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Re: oil price... something wrong?

Post  DANDY on Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:11 pm

Tomte wrote:Ethanol will save our future, because farm land before used for food is now used for fuel. This means even more monoculture, which will exhaust the fertile land even quicker.
Corn-based E won't last long. Next-generation biofuels are not far off, made from biomass (waste wood or other organic material), algae (grown in bioreactors or desert-built ponds) or even garbage, like in Back to the Future. The challenge is producing it efficiently. E still sucks, but it should plug the hole without starving half the world until better alternatives are ready for market.
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