[WIP] Baja Bug

Download beta 1

To Do:
-possibly raise Z inertia. Tomte has suggested I do this, and I most likely will for stability/wobbliness reasons.
-several known graphic issues: new steering wheel, better seat texture/lower backrest for cockpit drivers
-perhaps lower top speed, via a shorter final drive. If studying the desert tracks is worth anything, these cars rarely reach above 100mph, it seems pointless to gear it any higher than that.

Enjoy!

------original post-------
Hi all,

Seeing as ASW is still "offline" , and seeing that I'm working on another rally car, I need some help. C14ru5 provided me the Baja Bug model from Toca race driver 2 or 3 (can't remember which).



Brianhulud is the source of a lot of the technical stuff (gearing, engine performance, the engine sound is from his bug in real life, etc.)

Anyway, my goal is to make it roughly competitive with thomm's DPV. Sure, the Bug's heavier and only has a 4-speed 'box, but that's the only buggy-style vehicle in-game, and I think it would be appropriate driving competition.

Here's my problem: the Bug is rear-engined, and thus rear-weight-distributed. In-game, it means that I been fighting with all sorts of snap-oversteer that makes the car more or less undrivable offroad. I know the DPV has a rear weight bias, too, and I know that thomm used wheels.loadSensitivity to limit snap behavior.

Thing is, when I use that, the car feels unresponsive and very much unlike what I think a Bug is supposed to feel like. So, I tried some other things to "fix" the snap problem. First I made a 50/50 weight distribution, which I justified because of the massive suspension pieces up front. That felt like cheating though, so I moved the CoG back, and wound up with the same problems.

Next, I tried using massive wide tires out back without a differential lock (I'm told that desert bugs don't have an LSD anyway, so this is perhaps more accurate than previous). This worked, to the extent that snap oversteer didn't happen quite as frequently; but, when it happened, it was completely unrecoverable.

So, now I'm back to using load sensitivity to limit snap oversteer, in conjunction with the wider tires and no LSD.

[s]Here's the link to the folder[/s]

If you've got any advice, I'd be thrilled to hear it.

Thanks,
Adam

Perhaps not what you wanted to read, but I think it's pretty sweet as is - distinctive without being a mess to drive. I especially like the sharp twang of the suspension.

Thank you! If everybody's happy with it, I'm willing to accept it as is.

A-rod wrote:
Snap oversteer

If you've got any advice, I'd be thrilled to hear it.

My standard advice in this case is to use more wheel travel at the rear than the front. As far as I understand it, the main reason for snap oversteer is that the rear wheels lose contact (while cornering or braking) way before the front is on its suspension stops.

But then again, I need to drive the buggy first.

EDIT: Just tried the bug. Good looking model, I like the engine
There isn't that much snap oversteer, the suspension travel isn't much of a problem as there is so much of it. I only don't like the wobbly suspension, try a higher Z inertia. I bumped it to 700 and it feel a tad more controllable without changing too much of the original handling.

While the wide rear wheels look cool, I believe they would be better suited for off road terrain if they were narrow. Even the front wheels are a bit too wide IMO. You may compare with a picture from TOCA 3 if you like.

Tomte wrote:
I only don't like the wobbly suspension, try a higher Z inertia. I bumped it to 700 and it feel a tad more controllable without changing too much of the original handling.

I will have to look into that. I kinda like the wobbly ride, but I think the greater community may not. So, yeah, I'll definitely try that out.

C14ru5 wrote:While the wide rear wheels look cool, I believe they would be better suited for off road terrain if they were narrow.

I'm kind of up in the air about that right now. While I see the merits of skinny dirt wheels, and racing series where this is pervasive, the off-roaders I know swear by wide, knobby tires for the best off-road performance. I dunno.

Now, not having seen the TOCA image during development, I based this car off a number of dune buggies and baja specials, all which had 295-width-or-greater rear tires, and about 205s up front. I rationalized that as rear-heavy as the car is, it would be best for stability reasons to have wider rears.

That said...

it appears that the TOCA image features a Class 5-1600 buggy:

5-1600: Baja bugs limited to 1600cc type 1 motor and type 1 suspension parts. Must retain working doors, stock floor pan and baja bug fenders.

Aka: 5150 (BITD)
Horsepower: 85-90 (dual port)
Wheel Travel: 9-10 Front, 15-18.5 Rear
Weight: 1750-1900
Top Speed: 80-85
Cost New: $20,000-50,000
Cost Per Prep: $2,000-4,000

Basic Rules:

Suspension Components:
Front:
- Suspension is based on VW Type 1 ball join or link pin style
- Any manufacturer's beam of 2 steel torsion tubes may be used but must retain stock VW width.
- Front trailing arms may be reinforced or replaced but must retain stock length and width.
- Track width will be measured from wheel mounting serface to the opposite; maximum is 55 1/2".
Rear:
- Suspension is based on VW Type 1 (IRS) or swing axle
- Trailing arms may be replaced or reinforced as long as length is retained at +/- 1".
- Torsion tube may be replaced or reinforced and torsion adjusters may be installed; any manufacturer may be used.
- Trackwidth may not exceed 58 1/4'' and is measured wheel mounting face to the opposite site.
- Entire outer cv must remain inside of the trailing arm inner bearing; no midboard or out-board hubs allowed.

From what I've seen, Class 5s run in rather short dirt tracks (hint, hint ), where the terrain doesn't differ greatly. A true Baja Bug would have to handle all kinds of different terrain, and, IMO, wider wheels would be better suited to that.

In the process of creating this, I fully intended this car to run against the DPV, and I figured that the tires of both cars are about equal in terms of width (.305 vs. .30)

Besides, I'm a horsepower junkie, and an 80-85 hp Class 5 just doesn't cut it for me.

Jump to first post for "official" release of beta 1. A few things are changed, I'm waiting on the rest of the community to see about the Z inertia issue.



Enjoy!