SF Invitational RLTCC Games

Well, the Seat and the 190 will be updated shortly, probably tomorrow or Tuesday.

djpimley wrote:Every car except the Saturn hits 60 mph in about 3 seconds. Due to nice traction and apparently higher engine inertia the Saturn hits 60 mph in under 3 seconds - about 2.6 seconds I think.

Uh, I just used a stop watch and a lovely assistant, and the 190 hits 60mph in 4.6s (perhaps if I changed gears better it would be lower, but I can't see it being 3s). The others felt similar, though I had to let my assistant go about her business and didn't time them.

NoNameBrand wrote:Uh, I just used a stop watch and a lovely assistant

Oops, I should mention that I timed the cars by repeatedly starting a 1 car race with each until I felt I had nailed the start. The in-game counter does not begin counting until I cross the start line so that explains the stray second. It will be the same for all my timings, so the comparison is still valid.

Yet another comment on these cars... from a low end driver. I'm pretty sure i've said most of these things.. but since the discussion is still going, I'll place these comments here as to group the information together.

Merc 190
Don has repeatedly said the 190 is too fast. It's possible that he can judge that when comparing his driving to his using the Volvo, his car of choice. But, I still say, Val is the only guy that wins in this car. It's damn hard to drive.
I can beat Tomte with the volvo when he uses HIS 190. So I think, yes, it's a better car, but not many people can drive with it.
Seat Leon
I've tried using this car, and on some tracks seemed to think I was doing better, but on the average, was not getting overall better times in MP races. I was placing better with Volvo. I do feel that good players picking this car have a slight advantage, it's fast and seems quite stable. Why more people are not using it is puzzling to me.
Saturn
This one I really feel is too darn easy. It just recovers from anything, and does not require any thought when going into a curve.. just go. AND, if you climb a curb, hit a wall, go into slippery grass... no problem, just pull yourself back on the track. I really think this car needs looking into. Leo mentioned last night it might be a good thing to have an easier car in the game for the... less skilled... to still remain in the pack and have fun. I agree totally with this position, but do not think it's fair to have such a car in the RLTCC games. It skews the results.
BMW
I see amped made a short request. I think Dandy loves the challenge and loves working hard at driving and he builds his cars with that in mind. In actuality, I would venture it's gotta be that hard on a real track with a real car going at these speeds. I'm sure when he gets a win, it's more rewarding than a noob taking it with the Alfa. So sorry amped, I think it's fine not to change it. Just more merit for Dandy Toad and you if you dare once more!
Mazda
I dont know what is wrong with this car. I see a lot of good drivers winning with it. I personnaly cant drive the thing. I know Tomte has very specific thoughts about it, that the car was crippled to get the ringer out of it. I hope whatever Ren or tomte does to it does not make it such again. It sure seems faulty at the starting line!
I hope they get a paint job more than anything
Volvo
it might just be because it's like an old pair of slippers... but I always do better (consistency wise) with this car than any other I try.
Vaux
The one that made all this happen.... what can be said.

See Flat
RLTCC Games

See Flat wrote:...cardboard cutout. (I'm sure D will not take offense to this hehe)
See Flat

...not at all, you're just pointing out the obvious. I only take exception when some punk on an internet power trip goes out of his way to slag my beginners' attempts over and over on multiple threads.

SF wrote: I asked Dandy if he might be working on finishing up Lime and his "not anytime soon" answer sounded more like << most probably never>>

Never fear, it will get a 1.0 treatment, most likely over the winter, as I'll have 3 months off.

amped wrote:would also hope that as long as everything else is getting tuned, that dandy would tune the beemer just a bit

I've picked up a few nuggets in the past few weeks that pretty much oblige me to revisit my previous creations.

amped™ wrote:would also hope that as long as everything else is getting tuned, that dandy would tune the beemer just a bit

I think the 5 speed is the tuned version. A little more acceleration from less weight, also a little less "roadholding," also from less weight. I hate to ask him to change anything in the handling department, it's like no other in this class and addictively fun to drive even if really hard to be consistant with. Variety in the car characteristics suited to driver preferences, that's kind of what we want rather than just performance edges like top speed or 40-100mph acceleration etc.

If there are to be no changes to some of the others then maybe a little torque or Horsepower increase to help holding off the Merc and Mazda which blow past with impunity on long straights; otherwise I'm happy to stick with it as it is. It's a pretty good fit with Vaux, Seat, Volvo, and I am having a blast racing it against you all.

See Flat wrote:BMW
I see amped made a short request. I think Dandy loves the challenge and loves working hard at driving and he builds his cars with that in mind. In actuality, I would venture it's gotta be that hard on a real track with a real car going at these speeds. I'm sure when he gets a win, it's more rewarding than a noob taking it with the Alfa. So sorry amped, I think it's fine not to change it. Just more merit for Dandy Toad and you if you dare once more!

There are weeks we talking about "slowering" 190 here and there. Well, I have a request to DANDY too. Pls good DANDY. Make this car faster. In TCC competition is one of the fastest car within the Audi, if I'm not wrong. Well, she can barely compete with Volvo/Vauxhaull. This car need to be faster and get better traction.

See Flat wrote:MazdaI dont know what is wrong with this car. I see a lot of good drivers winning with it. I personnaly cant drive the thing. I know Tomte has very specific thoughts about it, that the car was crippled to get the ringer out of it. I hope whatever Ren or tomte does to it does not make it such again. It sure seems faulty at the starting line!
I hope they get a paint job more than anything

Unfortunately, who made this car quit. Mazda should be considered as a referrer point too. This car is good, she just need to be fixed at start. Its impossible her engine completely stall.

djpimley wrote:EDIT: raised CoG to 50 cm from 35 cm. Doesn't curtail the speed but it makes for a less stable more twitchy ride, looser tail and more tyre smoke. Perhaps more is needed. Try it out: Saturn CoG test

just had a whack at her ... still feels too stable. i like the feel of the new cog, yet imho still too easy

leoantix wrote:i like the feel of the new cog, yet imho still too easy

Completley forgot about the test version of the saturn! Just been blasting Tomte's test rigs around Thruxton and all of the Variations of Merc and Seat are great fun to drive.

The Saturn just feels a bit dull in comparison. I think top gear is one ratio too high, almost impossible to get into it (a slipstream would help but still). I'm not sure what it is lacking really, further investigation needed!

leoantix wrote:just had a whack at her ... still feels too stable. i like the feel of the new cog, yet imho still too easy

This is interesting. I just discovered "suspensionType 7" in the Saturn's car file. Maybe I'm fooling myself, but I've been playing with this and it certainly feels like that supposedly redundant option is making a difference to high-speed stability.

Can you guys try this:
Get up to top speed on a track like Dantona or Brooklands and then on a straight section shake the Saturn's tail hard - try to get a nasty high speed fishtail going. Now quit, open my test car file and comment out that line (";suspensionType 7"). Try the fishtail manoeuvre again. Am I right?

EDIT: Hm, not so sure myself now...

djpimley wrote:Hm, not so sure myself now...

i can't seem to tell if there's a difference ... she seems to be the same to me

djpimley wrote:Hm, not so sure myself now...

There was a time I was certain wheels.tilt did more than make a car look badass.

Yeah, you're right. I need some kind of robot driver so I can test this stuff objectively.

djpimley wrote:Yeah, you're right. I need some kind of robot driver so I can test this stuff objectively.

pastrl or naw would do just fine

Tomte wrote:Well, the Seat and the 190 will be updated shortly, probably tomorrow or Tuesday.

loving both betas ... i think its time to put these babies into production

I'll give you guys a bit more time. Lat time I put some betas out for testing they tourned out to be too quick.

It looks as if the Seat will stay it is in the Beta, but the 190 will get some speed back. Something between v1.1 and v1.2b. It just doesn't have any advantage anymore, only drawbacks.

Tell me if you think this is a bad idea.

I'm getting a really good feeling about an upcoming RLTCC Games event.
We did a lot of testing with 190, Seat, AND Tomte recipe for Mazda. So much fun with close races and different and unexpected outcomes. I like the way the Mazda is not killing everyone in the long straights although still remaining a very competitive car for the good drivers. Pastrl still won most of his races but not with a 30 sec lead. Same for OMD who also uses the car all the time. They also both state they do not feel the car is not as good and had fun with it. Cant wait to have Don's, leos, Dandy's etc... opinions.

Tomte was saying he was enjoying his 190 more and Alphonse says he cant really see the difference in the SEAT.

and this evening.. the cherry on the sunday.......Imola .95.... WOW. This is one heck of a track. To quote OMD, the landscape seems to go on forever into the horizon and it is the most open track in Redline as far as visibility.
I find the new landscape, buildings and tress certainly help with perspective and make the track actually easier to drive.

Thank guys for all the work you put into redline plugs. It is appreciated.

See Flat

If Alphonse cannot really see a difference, I still might need to reign in the car a bit more. I won't touch the handling, but lowering the top speed a tad and maybe the acceleration above 200 kph.
I know that Alphonse is extremely happy with the Seat and I don't want to take this away form him.

This is getting confusing with two webboards talking about the same stuff.

Please check here for a 5 speed version of the Mazda RX-8.
It doesn't have the start lag anymore, but also loses most of the speed advantage it had.
Here's also the Seat Leon v1.2 beta 2 which sports more drag and and thus a lower high speed than before.

Lemme know.

Dandy was hoping for a time frame that RLTCC games might occur. I am saddened to say that I've just been given more dates in my work load and it is now looking as if I might have started to talk about RLTCC Games too early. I did want to get a pulse to see if this event still had some interest and I the few that answered, publicly and privately, certainly were very enthusiastic.

It looks like I might not be able to do this anytime soon. I know how much time I invested last time, and know this time wont be less work so I think i will call an immediate undetermined postponement. Looks like it will not be before next year sometime.

Thank you very much to all developers who jumped in and started talking about cars, and making the TCC class what it has become. I think that the new models will now be tested by all and some people will change camps only to make the next event even more fun.

Thank you for your understanding.

See Flat

Tomte wrote:Lemme know.

mazda rx-8 jtcc tomte >>>>>>> X <<<<<<< mazda rx-8 jtcc t4.44

X marks the right spot ... a happy medium

ps. the seat is alf's ... i leave her to him

See Flat wrote:Looks like it will not be before next year sometime.

understood yet disappointed ... stupid real life